Bakery Run #11 – Grass Roots Café, Adelaide Uni

Pie Buddy: Adam

Topic: Christian teaching in High School – A Non-Christian’s perspective

Ok, let me just say first off, I realise this place isn’t exactly a bakery. But it was a fairly impromptu affair, and this was the only place I could find in the university campus that sells pies. I did the best I could. If that’s not good enough for you, I won’t force you to keep reading. Go on, stop reading now, I dare you. Yeah, I didn’t think so.

Well, as a bakery, this place isn’t the greatest. I doubt the pies were made on site. Most of them were just sitting unheated on display and got put in the oven when someone wants one. I took my pepper steak pie out of its bag (probably thirty seconds after it was given to me), and it felt like it had just come out of the fridge. As far as a pie review goes, you can’t give a high mark to a cold pie. That’s a deal-breaker. The pie had mince filling, no chunks of meat. It had a decent hit of spiciness, and tasted quite good, but unlike revenge, meat pie is not a dish best served cold. The caramel slice was really delicious, albeit quite small for $4. There was a good selection of (cold) pies and buns, most of which looked pretty good. I think the taste of cold pie will prevent me from venturing back there too soon though. That’ll teach me to go to a pretend bakery!

Adam and I got chatting. After talking to Anton about his experience at a nominal Christian school, I now heard Adam’s perspective of being at a school where religion was forced quite hard on him. As Adam isn’t a Christian, we realised that we would disagree on quite a few things throughout this conversation. And we were right. The phrase ‘agree to disagree’ was used more times than I could count! It’s worth pointing out that Adam was educated and churched in a Christadelphian environment, which I personally would consider to be false teaching, but that’s a topic for another time. The point of today’s chat was the method, not the theology, of the religious education.

“My view on Christian teaching is that it shouldn’t be the sole teaching in a school,” Adam began. “I think that all religions should have equal footing in terms of teaching, because what I worry about is students not being able to make up their minds because they don’t have all the facts. It’s basically brainwashing if you’re not told the whole story, in my opinion.”

“What impact did your religious education have on you?” I asked.

“It wasn’t all negative. It was a positive experience in that it gave me good morals in the sense of what the western world thinks, and I enjoyed myself at school, don’t get me wrong. But looking back in hindsight later in life, I don’t think Christianity should ever be the sole teaching in school. I think kids deserve to know the full picture to make an informed decision later on.”

I briefly discussed my own religious education experience, which focused on worldly morals rather than biblical teaching. “There was never a time when we opened the Bible as part of our Christian Ed,” I finished.

“Can I ask you a question though – do you think that was the right way to teach in a Christian school environment?” Adam queried.

“No.”

“Why?”

“Because it’s a school that’s selling itself on Christian values and identifying itself as a Christian school, and yet it is not giving any sort of Christian teaching at all. So whether you think Christian teaching is right or not, they’re selling themselves as a product that they’re not delivering on.”

“But don’t you think that students have the right to have a balanced view on what religion is in a way that gives them exposure to all types of religions?” Adam asked.

“Absolutely. I don’t think a Christian Ed class could be expected to have an equal focus on all religions, but I think it should be able to explain what other religions are out there.” From my point of view, knowing about other religions is useful in terms of giving people an understanding of why Christianity is the truth. And it would make the kids think. I wonder how many nominal Christians there are in the world who have never grown in their faith because they’ve never put much thought into it.

I decided to turn the focus on to the parents. “Essentially, as a parent, if you don’t want your children taught Christianity, why would you send them to a Christian school?”

“Exactly right, I agree,” Adam replied. “In that case you probably shouldn’t send them to a Christian school. You shouldn’t expect them to teach something else just because you want to have a better school. I understand that, but there’s another aspect to that argument – has anyone asked the kids what they want?”

I knew this was where the conversation was heading. “That’s the big issue. The parents choose the school, but the kids have no say whatsoever.”

“And that’s what my story comes down to. I went to a Christadelphian school, which was quite separated from everything else. I can only speak from my experience,” said Adam.

“I think if a Christian school is trying to brainwash kids, then that’s the wrong way,” I said. “Like if the science text books have certain pages ripped out or whatever. From my experience though, our classes were no different from being in a public school.”

“And in my opinion, it should be taught like that,” said Adam. He then recounted his schooling experience, which ignored evolution, related everything back to God, and gave students no chance to question what was taught. The school was run exclusively for children of Christadelphian families.

I wasn’t a fan of that sort of exclusivity. “I think as far as Christian community goes, whether that’s church, school or whatever, there should be interaction with the outside world.”

“But then what about the idea of being in the world but not of the world?” Adam asked.

“It means you’re called to be in the world, to be a part of the world around you, but not behaving as people of the world do,” I replied.

“And that’s the way I see it too, but Christadelphians see it differently.”

“What do they say about it?”

“That we should be completely separate from the world and limit our interaction with the world.”

Clearly the ethos of Adam’s school differed greatly from my personal views. I tried to get things back on topic. “The way I would see it is that if a school claims to be a Christian school, not only is it appropriate to teach the Christian message, but the onus is on them to do so. If a school claimed to be great at teaching maths and they didn’t teach maths well, then why would you send your kids there? But I think it should be done lovingly, and not in such a way that they’re trying to convince the kids that there are no other worldviews out there.”

Adam agreed with me in principle, but suggested that any religious education should cover other religions too. “It’s not a bad thing learning about religion,” he said. “It shapes everyone.”

“I think it would be helpful for kids to know what other religions are out there,” I replied. “I reckon it would help them to think a bit more.” This came back to what we had been saying earlier.

Adam then discussed some of his fundamental issues with religion as a whole. “Religion is taking someone’s life, taking advantage of their doubt and giving them a reward/punishment system that is based around human belief,” he said. “It seeks to take control of people. That’s my opinion, and I feel really strongly about that.”

“Christianity is offensive,” I replied. “It’s saying we’re sinners, we’re not good enough, we can’t make it on our own. We needed Jesus to die on a cross to save us. And if Christianity takes control of people, what are those taking control looking to gain?”

“Power, money, influence, anything they can get from it.” Adam brought up the example of the wealth and influence that the Catholic Church holds in the world.

“Do you think that’s the reason for religion?” I asked.

“No, I think humans needed an answer to bridge the gap between knowledge and belief. Humans need to believe in something, whether that’s through science or religion. There was just a period in history when we believed in religion, which has carried on to today. And it can be manipulated by people in power.”

“I would agree religion being manipulated, but I wouldn’t for a second say that’s a reason to disregard it,” I responded. His point was a good one though, Christianity (like all other religions) has definitely been abused over the years. That was a discussion for another time though.

I decided to launch my conclusion. “So in terms of school teaching, I think that Christian schools have the responsibility to teach children through the Bible, what it means to be a Christian, and to give them a chance to respond. To present God’s word faithfully, truthfully and lovingly to them without forcing them to do any sort of action that’s against their beliefs.”

“I think they should be taught how to think,” said Adam.

“Absolutely, and that’s the big one for me,” I replied. “It’s a stage of people’s lives where they get shaped a lot, and I think they should be challenged. They should be encouraged to ask hard questions. Challenge the teachers. And the teacher should have the right to respond to that.”

Whenever the thinking through of one’s faith is discussed, the passage that always comes to my mind is in Acts, where Paul talks about how thorough the Bereans were in thinking through their beliefs based on what they had read and been taught.

Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. (Acts 17:11)

This is a great example for us today. We should be testing and examining everything we hear and read. We should be well thought through in our views.

“And as far as chapel services go,” I continued, “I think it’s perfectly fine to have, say, three services in a week where there’s a Bible reading and then a talk explaining that passage.”

“What do you think about non-Christian schools?” Adam asked.

“They have absolutely no obligation to do any sort of religious study,” I replied.

“I think that as religion plays a big part in human history and present events, they should be taught some religion,” Adam responded. “I think it’s wrong to not understand what some people think.”

“To be honest I haven’t really thought about that too much. I think if it could be structured in a way that represents religions in an accurate way, that’d be fine. You’d probably get parents complaining though. I wouldn’t have a problem with it, but it’s up to the school really.”

“When it comes down to it, it’s up to each person to make their own decision,” said Adam.

“Absolutely. That child will grow up and form their own views, become their own man or woman.” I’ve met countless people who have had religious education of some sort and decided that they don’t believe it.

Adam wasn’t quite finished. “One last point – I think there are people in church who shouldn’t be there. They’re only there because of their parents. For me, my whole world growing up was church, so from my perspective, it’s not a good thing to cut yourself off from the rest of the world, it’s a recipe for disaster.”

“I could not agree more.”

It seemed to me that the big issue Adam had was not so much with Christian education itself, but that the views of his school were forced upon him, with no chance to question these views, and with no acknowledgement of alternative worldviews. The exclusive, isolated nature of the school was also unhealthy in that it prevented him from being able to have a range of perspectives from which to develop his own worldview. In my personal opinion, a Christian school should present God’s word clearly and truthfully to its students, and give them the opportunity to think about these things and ask questions. Students should be taught not just to listen, but to think. 

Bakery Run #10 – Pat-a-Cake

Pie Buddy: Anton Nortkus

Topic: Christian teaching in High School – A student’s perspective

Anton and I originally intended to meet up at Bakery Girls on Duthy Street, which unfortunately turned out to be closed on Sundays. So instead we drove 1km up the road to Pat-a-Cake. Pat-a-Cake is just a short walk from my work, so I had been there a few times and knew that it delivered the goods. On this occasion, there were only a few pies left (late lunch on a Sunday, so I guess that’s understandable). Anton grabbed a couple of beef mince pies, while I opted for a chunky steak pie and a peanut chocolate brownie. Both hit the spot just nicely. The pies here are among the best I’ve had, and there is normally a good range of all things baked, both sweet and savoury. Perhaps the pies here are a tad heavy on the gravy, but the finished product is highly satisfying. Just like I knew this conversation would be!

Anton and I attended the same Christian high school, and we both felt – looking back on high school after coming to faith – that there were problems with how things were run from a Christian perspective. In a nutshell, it didn’t seem like there actually was a particular or effective focus on Christianity. From all anecdotal accounts, similar problems tend to occur at most Christian schools, so this certainly isn’t intended as an attack on our school. On the whole, the education we received was of a high quality. However, we found ourselves looking back with disappointment on the lack of strong biblical teaching. Given that teenage years have such an impact in shaping a person, we felt it was worth discussing.

“I don’t know if you can really call going to a Christian school a Christian experience,” Anton began. “It depends on the school a bit, but most schools with that Christian label attached to it, which make you think they’re serious about Christianity, seem to be quite nominal.”

“I guess to some extent there’s a sense in which they don’t want to be seen as brainwashing kids to believe what they do,” I suggested. “But then if you send your kids to a Christian school, you should know what you’re getting yourself into.”

“I think if you want to send your kid to a school and you don’t believe in their morals and teachings, well, send them somewhere else. I think faith should be the foremost thing. Education is obviously important though still.”

From that point of view, there is an onus on parents to not feel entitled to secular teaching from a Christian school. However, there is equal onus on a Christian school to be, well, Christian.

“I think it’s important for schools that do have strong convictions to hold to those convictions,” Anton continued. “If you’re going to attach a label to yourself like a Lutheran school or an Anglican school, then you should see that through. If you’re not going to bother with that, then lose the title.”

I completely agreed. “It’s a bit like on an individual level, if I was to refer to myself as a Christian, I should be living a life that reflects that. If I don’t do that, then not only am I not a Christian, but I’m rubbishing the Christian name, just making Christianity a joke.” I should point out in saying this that no Christian will ever exhibit perfect behaviour, but to live a deliberately sinful lifestyle is very different to living a life that, while still sinful, is lived with the best intentions of honouring God. I hope that makes sense.

“That’s right,” said Anton. “You could go as far as to say that they’re capitalising off it. One of the main reasons my parents sent me to our school was because they thought it had strong Christian values. And that was a message that was conveyed during the orientation, that it’s a good wholesome Christian school. But that’s not the case at all.”

We then focused on the rationale behind employing non-Christian teachers. “What’s the logic of hiring a teacher who doesn’t agree with the basic principles of Christianity?” Anton asked. “Yes, they might be good teachers, but I find it hard to believe that there are no good teachers with an ethos and mindset closer to what the school’s trying to portray. You can see how many teachers we had that were so far from that. It’s surprising really. And what was even more disappointing was to realise how many teachers we had that were Christian and couldn’t profess their faith.”

That was a good point, I thought. I wonder if there are evangelistically-minded teachers out there who are actively discouraged from sharing their faith in a classroom setting. And as for non-Christian teachers, I have clear memories from high school of seeing a lack of enthusiasm from teachers in how they responded to the idea of faith and worship, which for me downplayed the importance of Christianity.

We then discussed the teaching of Christian Education. “I remember being struck at how little Christian Ed class actually had to do with Christianity,” said Anton.

I agreed. “You could not find a square centimetre of theology in the whole Christian Ed course.”

“I think subliminally it gave the impression that it was ok to be a nominal believer,” Anton said. “Like you can find out about good and evil from the Lion King. That’s what got me. That project where all we did was make a poster about all the good and evil themes in the Lion King, it’s painting Christianity as just a set of morals, and saying that you don’t even need Jesus to recognise the good and evil in the world. It taught us that the morality we should live by is a human based morality. It was a weird concept for a subject called Christian Education.”

“It’s ironic, but I would bet that nobody actually grew in their Christian knowledge from doing Christian Ed,” I concluded. Anton nodded in agreement.  We then proceeded to discuss other projects that did absolutely nothing to teach us about who Jesus was.

“I think it was just to keep us busy,” I said. “We’ve got to keep these kids busy for three hours a week doing this subject under the guise of being a Christian education school.” Cynical maybe, but probably not far off the mark.

I’m currently establishing the high school age youth ministry at my church, and so the teaching of Christianity to teenagers is something I’ve been thinking about a bit of late. “I’m comparing the things I’m thinking about running in youth ministry with the things we learned in Christian Ed, and I reckon if I suggested some of the things we learned in school to my pastor as youth ministry ideas, he’d rip up my contract on the spot and push me down the stairs!”

(** Editor’s note: That last line was purely tongue in cheek. My pastor is a much more restrained man than that! **)

“Yeah, and so he should,” said Anton. “And in hindsight, I think the most important time for a young Christian is their high school years. When you’re in a school where they’re at least supposedly supportive of Christianity, that is a huge pushing factor about how that person develops. It’s where you spend most time, and get most impact.”

The pointlessness of our Christian Ed class was highlighted to me on one occasion when a teacher who I now know to be a Christian told us in our Chemistry class: “Don’t talk in class, that’s what Christian Ed’s for.” Enough said.

We also agreed that having unbelieving teachers preaching out of obligation was extremely unhelpful. “Getting teachers who clearly weren’t Christians to get up and do devotions in chapel and home class, that’s really damaging for the Christian message,” I said. “The school might feel that’s a box they’ve got to tick, but it’s a real step backwards.” I also had clear memories of teachers openly denying Christianity and uttering some pretty heavy blasphemies.

Anton agreed, and also pointed out the lack of focus on the cross in our chapel worship services. He recalled a chapel devotion on altruism, where instead of bringing the point of the talk back to the cross (which couldn’t have been hard – can you think of a better example of altruism?), the take-home message was ‘try to do one altruistic thing this week’. We also lamented the lack of an ongoing theme in the devotions. Could they perhaps have instead tried some expository preaching, like going through the book of Romans in a term? Sure, it would have gone over some peoples’ heads, but it would have given the students a better idea of how the Bible fits together. With the disjointed range of talk topics and lack of firm Biblical teaching, Anton eventually got to the point where he realised “This isn’t really chapel, it’s just letters to the editor by the teacher.”

Ultimately though, the big disappointment for both of us was that a school full of teenagers is a harvest field full of people ready to hear the gospel message. It’s a huge evangelistic mission-field that, in our limited experience, hasn’t been capitalised on. “It’s such a great opportunity to evangelise,” I said. “I’d love to have 20 kids in my class and be able to share Jesus with them.”

Jesus made it clear that it was the role of his followers to go out into the world and proclaim the gospel message. He used the image of a harvest field to represent the world full of people who don’t yet believe in him.

“The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.” (Luke 10:3)

High schools are an incredibly vast harvest field. Why allow this opportunity to be wasted?

“Yeah,” Anton agreed. “You can give them both practical teaching and spiritual feeding. Whereas it seems to be more just a case of teach them well, make sure they get good grades, and read them a devotion once a year.”

“ And make sure their diaries are signed.”

“And if they put the same effort that they did checking the diaries into giving their two cents on their Christian walk… It’s just a real waste.”

It’s important in all of this to realise that Christian parents have an important role to play in bringing up their children to know Jesus. They shouldn’t be relying on a Christian education to replace this. “At the end of the day though,” I said, “it’s the parents who have the most important job to do. They’ve got to be discerning in choosing a school, and they’ve got to be setting the groundwork at home.”

We finished off by chatting about how some high schools are quite effective at getting quality Christian teachers, through carefully interviewing applicants to get an idea of their relationship (if any) with God. Hopefully I’ll get the chance soon to rub shoulders and eat pie with someone who can give a bit more insight into this process. In the meantime, it’s definitely worth praying that God will be sending evangelistically-hearted gospel workers into these high school harvest fields.

Bakery Run #9 – Brumby’s, Northgate Village

Pie Buddy: Jack Page

Topic: Music ministry

Music in church can be a bit like the umpire in a football game. Everyone takes it for granted, and it’s often only noticed when it’s bad. For me personally, the impact of music in worship is something I’ve long underestimated, so I thought I’d chat with Jack, who has just finished a music internship in his church, about what music ministry means to him.

Today’s eatery of choice was the Brumby’s Bakery at Northgate. I naturally never expect too much from a bakery chain, so my hopes weren’t exactly sky-high. My pepper steak pie and donut came to just over $6, which was pretty cheap. The pie was on the money – lots of meat, good firm pastry, and just enough spiciness. The donut was slightly below par - not heaps fresh, icing a bit too runny, but still reasonably tasty. Jack gave the nod of approval for his bacon and cheese pie and apricot scroll. All in all a solid effort from Brumby’s, but no threat to the front-runners.

“How long have you been involved in music ministry for?” I asked to begin things.

“My whole life,” Jack replied. “I started playing the drums when I was a young kid, as soon as my feet could reach the pedals. And the guitar. And eventually I got asked to play in church.”

“Has it made a difference to your faith at all?”

“Yeah. Especially in the last few years when I’ve started thinking more and more about music and its place in church. So much of our music comes from God’s word, the lyrics are God’s words, the truth of the Bible that you want to be telling people and having them respond to. It’s had a big impact on my faith, definitely. Especially song-writing – sitting down, reading the bible and writing my response to what I’m reading.”

As part of Jack’s internship, one of his jobs was to choose the songs to play throughout a church service, making sure that the song lyrics connected with the theme of the sermon. We chatted about how that had helped him to think through the meaning of Bible passages a bit more. He spent a lot of one-on-one time with his music mentor, which involved a lot of questioning over Jack’s song choices, and his understanding of what the lyrics meant. He found this questioning quite intimidating, but also invaluable in getting a better understanding of things.

“Does it change the way you read the bible?”

“Yeah definitely,” said Jack. “Whenever I read through a passage now, my brain just automatically thinks of a response song. Reflecting on the song lyrics has definitely helped me grow in my thinking.”

“How much song-writing have you been doing?”

“A lot. I love picking up a guitar and putting some lyrics together. I do it pretty often, just when I’m in the mood. Catching up with Men in Boats (Jack’s band) is really good, we always come away learning more about God because we’ll read a bible passage and think through God’s word together. Whether we come away with a song or not after that really doesn’t matter, we always gain something. But if a song comes out that can be helpful for people and glorify God, then that’s great.”

Having seen Men In Boats perform several times and having heard a few of the songs they’ve written, I can definitely attest that what they’ve done so far as a band has been a huge encouragement and benefit to the Christians around them. But that’s enough shameless plugging from me, back to the discussion.

“As far as a church gathering goes, what impact do you think the music has?” I asked. “For me personally, I think it really changes the atmosphere, gets an emotional response.”

“Yeah, music is an emotional thing. And I think God’s given us this emotional thing to use, to be able to respond to his word. I think music plays a big part in teaching people God’s word. For me, if I’m reading through a bible passage or thinking through something theological, song lyrics often come into my head and help me to remember parts of scripture. It’s also edifying. It builds people up, it builds up the whole congregation, we can use music to encourage and teach one another. Scripture is always useful for teaching. And having over a hundred people around you belting out In Christ Alone definitely gets you excited and emotional. Being able to look around and see people singing about what Christ has done for them, that’s really encouraging. It just makes you want to sing louder!”

I agreed. “I find especially at a wedding or a funeral where emotions already are quite high, music and singing can be quite stirring, it definitely does have that emotional impact on people. It gets God’s word and praise for God inside their head. It’s God’s truth expressed in a sort of poetic, artistic format, that resonates with our artistic nature as humans. It makes a massive difference for me personally having music on a Sunday.”

“Good,” said Jack, “that’s exactly what I want to hear! I think music is something we all respond to, it stirs us all.”

“It’s underrated I reckon,” I said. “If I went along to church and there was no music, it wouldn’t feel right. Not that you couldn’t have church without singing, but it really does get such a response out of people. God tells us to sing songs, sing praises to the Lord, and he’s wired us to respond to the music we hear.” I then switched to the next question. “What are some of the blessings and highlights you’ve had in music ministry?”

Jack thought about it for a bit. “Seeing how much God does play a part in his church, in his people. A lot of times I’ve been anxious and stressed out, thinking things aren’t going to work out well with music on a particular Sunday because I haven’t done a good job preparing or whatever, rather than just asking to God to help out, and then everything’s just come together and worked. The musos rock up, they’re there because they want to serve God – a lot of the time people will offer to serve in exactly the way that you need people at that moment. It happens so many times, it can’t be coincidence, it’s just God’s helping hand, raising up people to serve him and giving us opportunities to serve him. That’s been a big blessing. Same as any ministry, the second you start thinking the weights on your shoulders rather than God’s, you’ve got it wrong.”

“No one’s dispensable.”

“It’s all God,” Jack agreed. “And that really makes things easy! Another blessing has been reading the bible week after week with a mentor who just knows so much about God, it’s made me so much more disciplined with my bible reading, I was pretty slack before the internship. Getting that discipline to read the bible has been awesome. Just seeing how the people that serve in a church are just one big body, they all work together in the same team.”

“What have been some challenges in music ministry?” I asked.

“I’m not always heaps comfortable being up on stage in front of people, that can be a bit awkward. I was freaked out about that, the prospect of leading people. That pushed me a lot, talking in front of the whole congregation. Also, life gets in the way. When things are stacking up, if you’ve had a bad week, it affects things. I think it affects any ministry. Which is why it’s important to pray, to talk to God as much as you can. The more you do that the more encouraged and content you’ll be, the more strength you’ll have.”

“Are there things that you see done badly in music ministry?”

“I think, as good as music is, people sometimes glorify musicians. It’s hard, because they’re up on stage and they play such a big role, but I think it can be unhealthy both for the individual and the church. It feels good to be told week after week that they’ve done a great job, but it can be damaging in the long run to how people serve. It’s God who’s given the gift, so we can serve and glorify him in a church setting. That’s something I think can be done badly. Also, you hear people talking about using music to get the Spirit’s attention, get the Holy Spirit to be around us, which is rubbish. God’s not someone who you call down. He is here. If you think music is a good way to get his attention, well, you’ve already got his attention, so why not put it to good use?”

I found that to be quite an enlightening chat. As someone with zero music ability and minimal musical knowledge, it’s not often enough that I recognise the huge blessing that music is to Christian worship. Throughout the Bible, God calls us to sing joyful praises to him, not only personally but in fellowship with other Christians:

Come, let us sing for joy to the Lord; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation. (Psalm 95:1)

Sing to him, sing praises to him; tell of all his wonderful acts. (Psalm 105:2)

I will sing to the Lord all my life; I will sing praise to my God as long as I live. (Psalm 104:33)

Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord. (Ephesians 6:19)

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. (Colossians 3:16)

Music provides us with a means of worshipping God, while also moving us emotionally. Whenever I hear a really stirring rendition of a hymn being sung by hundreds of people together, I can’t help but feel drawn even closer to the God who has wired us to get such a high from singing his praises. I might never be much good at music myself, but it’s a gift God has given to us that I am hugely appreciative of. And I’m thankful that there are people like Jack who have the talent and the generosity of time to honour God and serve the rest of us by taking up the role of music worship.

Bakery Run #8 – Free, Unley

Pie Buddies: Tom Vaughan & Andrew Chan

Topic: Being a Christian in High School

A gluten-free bakery. I never thought I’d find myself in one of these places. But in God’s sovereignty, that’s exactly where I found myself on this particular day. My two guests were Tom and Andrew, who both finished high school just over a year ago. Tom can’t eat gluten, hence the choice of location.

To be fair, this place isn’t exactly a bakery. It’s more like a gluten-free mini-mart that also sells baked goods. There were a few pies, sausage rolls and pasties on display, as well as a few cakes. Not the sort of variety that a normal bakery would have, but enough to have a bit of a choice. All three of us got sausage rolls. I also got a brownie (which was dairy-free too), while Tom got a pastie.

The lady running the shop was delighted to find us saying grace when she brought the food over. “It’s good to see young people doing that these days!” she exclaimed. My sausage roll certainly wasn’t the greatest I’d ever had. It still tasted alright, it was a bit dry and crumbly though. Andrew, an avid gluten consumer, couldn’t finish his. Tom devoured both his pastries and enjoyed them. And the brownie was one of the nicest I’ve had in ages. So while this place certainly won’t top the list, it’s good to know that there are appealing options for people who aren’t able to eat certain foods.

We started the conversation off by chatting generally about their experiences of being Christians in their respective high school environments.

“I probably took on being a Christian about halfway through high school,” Tom began. “It was a bit of a funny situation, because I was at a Catholic school. And a lot of the stuff they believe is similar, but a lot isn’t similar. I found that a lot of the kids were completely turned off by the way they taught Christianity at school, which made it a bit harder for me to connect with them. My friends all knew I was a Christian. I didn’t get many questions about it, but I think I was still able to show my faith the way I did things.”

“Were you the only Christian in your group?” I asked.

“Yeah.”

“Was that a bit of a challenge for you?”

“It wasn’t too bad,” Tom replied, “my closer group of friends were all cool with it, but the wider circle of friends gave me a bit of flak. Just the odd snide remark, I was able to brush that off pretty easily. I reckon I had a pretty easy time.”

“I went to a non-denominational school,” Andrew began. “In years 8, 9 and 10 it was quite difficult because I often got shut down for believing what I did. But I started sticking up for it, because I realised that it was actually really important. I’d say I took my faith on in high school as well. My school friends gave me a lot of crap for it, but they eventually came to respect me for who I am because I did stick up for it. And we’re still friends, but I don’t really talk to them much anymore, because we’re just different people.”

I had experienced this drifting apart with many of my old school friends. “You really just find that you don’t have anything in common with them,” I agreed.

I was encouraged to hear how these two guys had been able to make a stand for Jesus at such a young age and in such a secular environment. In his letter to the Romans, Paul explains that the gospel is God’s message, and is to be proclaimed, not to be ashamed of:

I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes. (Romans 1:16)

Tom and Andrew had understood that well.

I then moved on to the next question. “You guys both became Christians during high school. What were the big challenges you then faced?”

“Probably the biggest challenge for me was dispelling all these ideas people have, especially since it was a Catholic school,” Tom answered. “People get a really negative idea of the Catholic faith, and therefore the Christian faith. I’m constantly telling people that we don’t want gay people to burn in hell, not every priest rapes 12 year old boys, that sort of thing. And that I’m not all high and mighty judging them on every little thing they do.”

Andrew’s biggest challenge was the fact that as a Christian in a secular environment, he was fairly isolated. “For me, there were some other people at school that were Christian, not many. And there was a chaplain, but that didn’t really help strengthen me in my faith as a Christian.”

The Christian education at Tom’s school (high school Christian education is a subject which I’ll chat about at a bakery near you sometime soon) wasn’t hugely helpful either, it seemed. “We were told to buy Bibles at our school,” Tom said. “And we read a few chapters of Matthew sometime in year 9, but by then half the bibles had been lost and the other half had been completely defaced. There was a complete disregard and almost hatred of Christianity.

“Was that because it was forced on them?” Andrew asked.

“Yeah exactly. Kids just didn’t want to be there.” He went on to talk about how the multicultural nature of the school meant that there were many children coming from different religious backgrounds who didn’t appreciate having Christianity force-fed to them. Having said that, I don’t know what you expect when you attend a Christian school.

“What did you guys find helpful for your faith during high school?” I asked.

“Our youth group at church,” Tom replied, with Andrew nodding in agreement. Just having a bunch of guys the same age going through the same sorts of difficulties and having the chance to encourage one another.”

“Church generally, or mainly the youth group?” I asked.

“Specifically youth, for me anyway,” said Tom. “Just because everybody was our age, so they could see things through the same eyes we did.”

“So youth was probably the main thing for both you guys?”

“Yeah,” they both agreed.

“That’s interesting,” I replied. “I guess it says a lot about the importance of youth group, and what you’re missing out on if you don’t have that.”

“Yeah, and we were lucky too in that we had a lot of guys our age in our group.”

“Any mentors that you looked up to?” I asked.

“Yeah, our youth group leaders for sure,” said Tom. “They all had a massive impact on us.”

Andrew agreed. “It’s definitely good not just having them as leaders, but as friends.”

“If you guys were youth leaders this year,” I asked, “what would be the big life lessons that you’d be trying to impart to the kids, from your own experiences?”

“I’d really encourage honesty,” said Tom.

“Openness,” said Andrew.

“Yeah, said Tom, “and to work hard on strengthening their relationships with each other. That’s what gets you through. Leaders are awesome, but they don’t know exactly what you’re going through.”

“Definitely,” Andrew agreed. “There are things I’d tell Tommy about that I’d never tell any of my leaders, because there just isn’t that relationship.”

“Also, the whole Sunday Christian thing,” said Tom (that is, going to church on Sunday but living an un-Christian life outside of church). “That’s a pretty big thing. You’d want to try and get rid of that. It’s not only bad for the kids  who do it, but it affects the other kids too.”

“It lowers the bar for everyone,” I said.

“Yeah, that’s right. If they see this kid as a Christian doing all these things, they’ll think it’s alright. One kid can drag the group down.”

“And I think the older guys need to be role models,” Andrew added.

“Yeah,” Tom agreed. “Get the older kids to be role models. “Try to actively get them involved in the younger groups. Removing the segregation between the kids of different ages. When we went through fusion, we never interacted with the older kids, whereas there’s a wealth of wisdom with older people.”

From the chat we had, it was evident that the youth group ministry that both lads had been involved with during high school had a massive impact in shaping them as Christians. From my personal experience, having gone through high school believing in God but having no real Christian teaching or Christian fellowship in my life, I can see what a big hole this left in my development as a Christian. Their time at youth group was clearly valuable both in terms of growing their knowledge of what it means to follow Jesus, and also surrounding them with people their own age, at a similar stage in life, asking the same questions and facing the same problems. Neither of these things can be underestimated in terms of their value. Being part of a good youth ministry won’t guarantee that a child will grow into a strong Christian (that’s ultimately up to God’s sovereignty and their own decision), but as Andrew and Tom’s experience shows, it will hold them in good stead for a life of following Jesus.