Bakery Run #7 – Michel’s Patisserie, Central Markets

Pie Buddy: Shane Martin

Topic: Purpose of Life

There’s nothing like a casual Friday lunch chatting about the meaning of life. So that’s exactly what Shane and I decided we’d do. We went to the Adelaide Central Markets and walked around until we found a pie. We ended up at Michel’s. I assume Patisserie is the French word for bakery or pastry shop or something like that, so it’s an eligible contender. I got myself a pepper pie and a chocolate éclair. Shane got a chicken pie, but passed on dessert, being a healthy guy and all (clearly he read my previous blog post). My pie was alright, not amazing, and not particularly large. The éclair was pretty good – fresh, with lots of cream. Michel’s is more of a cake shop than a bakery, so the variety of pies wasn’t huge. There was still an ok selection of pies and sweet pastries though. The Asian couple behind the counter served us with great politeness – certainly no customer service issues here. My order was $8.50 all up – not cheap, but not over the top either. In conclusion, I certainly don’t regret the venue choice, but I don’t think it will get anywhere near number one on my list.

“I’ve been thinking about the purpose of life a fair bit,” Shane began. “Discussing it is a good opportunity to talk to non-Christians about faith. I think a lot of the point of our existence is lost on people today, because people just want to get rich. There’s a big difference between how Christians think about life purpose, and how the rest of the world thinks about it. For Christians, our purpose comes from Christ. He’s our living water. Jesus says that our fulfilment is in him. But then you look at the world today, and most people will say there is no purpose for our lives.”

It’s a fair point. For there to be a purpose in anything, there needed to be some being to come up with that purpose. If there’s a pie sitting on my plate, it’s likely that someone made it with the purpose of selling it and making money (mission accomplished). If humans came into existence not by design but just by sheer coincidence, then there can be no original purpose for our being. Sure, we can each come up with a purpose for the way that we live our lives (helping people, doing well at our jobs etc), but there is nothing we can claim that we were put on Earth to do.

Shane continued. “If there’s no purpose for our lives, I believe we lose the ability to call something good or bad. How do you know that without comparing it to its purpose? If my watch didn’t keep the time properly, you’d say it was a bad watch, because it didn’t do what it was meant to do. But if it couldn’t support the weight of a truck, you couldn’t call it bad, because that’s not what it was intended to do. Was the Holocaust, for example, evil? Pretty much everyone would say yes. But how can we justify that? It’s because the actions that took place didn’t meet the correct purposes of people. And we all recognise the evil that occurred.”

“So essentially then, the whole concept of morality is tied in with our life purpose,” I said. “To act in a way that contradicts our life purpose is immoral.”

“That’s right,” Shane replied. “And as Christians we find our fulfilment in Jesus. Nothing else will satisfy. People who don’t know Jesus are still looking for fulfilment, but they’ll look to other things, like money, sex, stuff like that. And those things will never truly bring them fulfilment. In Christ we’re forgiven, and our purpose is fully realised. And that’s why I think this is such an important thing to talk about with other people.”

During these sorts of chats, I always try to put myself in the mind-frame of someone who doesn’t believe the things that Christians do. Comparing, for example, Hitler with someone who refused to believe the gospel message, Christians would look at the comparison very differently to non-Christians. A Christian would attest that both people were sinners who stand condemned by God unless they seek forgiveness. A non-Christian would see Hitler’s actions as being morally reprehensible, but would see no issue with the person who rejected God. And the purpose of our life is the key in this comparison. The Christian would see both people as being sinful and separated from God, as they have rejected man’s purpose in life, which is to bring glory to God. An unbeliever, who denies this purpose, would see that one of these people has done a great deal of damage to humanity (immoral) while the other has not, and may well be quite a selfless, kind person (not immoral).

“I guess some people would see it differently to us,” I said. “They would see morality on the basis of doing what we can to further the human race. Hence why treating people well is considered to be morally good, and treating them badly is considered immoral. In that way, our purpose in life is to improve the human race. But then if you took that all the way, then surely it would be logical to kill all disabled, weak people, to kill all old people once they turn 60, get rid of anyone who can’t make a significant contribution to the human race. But anyone would see that as being extreme and incredibly immoral. And that’s because we are made in God’s image, so we are loving beings by nature. And our loving nature causes us to recognise something like that as being evil. Love isn’t rational. It’s not something that we could have obtained through evolution. It’s something God gave us a sense of, to get a greater understanding of him. That’s the way I see it anyway.”

“Yeah, and I just don’t see how people can be happy to have no purpose in life,” Shane said. “People have always looked for purpose in life. The Greeks discussed philosophy, the Romans built bridges. Even the Germans I guess saw it as being their purpose to conquer. Power was their goal.”

“How do you think we best go about communicating our purpose?” I asked.

“We have to be disciples, pick up our cross, follow Jesus. Through him we have redemption, reconciliation, joy, life, satisfaction and ultimate fulfilment. We need to trust Jesus, have a relationship with him – then we’ll have all these things. Everyone’s looking for these things. You look at the woman at the well who meets Jesus in John 4, she’s looking for fulfilment. But she’s trying to use sex to get it, and that won’t work.”

“So ultimately, everyone is looking for fulfilment,” I said. “But so many people are looking for it in the wrong place.”

“Yeah, and I think it’s really important that we communicate that both to Christians and non-Christians,” Shane said. “As Christians, we need to be constantly reminded of what our purpose is, or we become complacent. We need to talk about these sorts of things more often. We need to talk about faith, what it is, what it means. Faith is such an interesting thing – it’s impossible, yet rational. The Bible says that faith is a gift from God. We can’t obtain it on our own. And yet it’s so rational – there’s so much reason and evidence behind it. And yet we can’t see that on our own, just like when Jesus was resurrected, Mary sees him but doesn’t recognise him until he tells her it’s him.”

“Yeah, it’s funny how that works,” I said. “Faith is ours by grace, we don’t achieve it on our own. And yet there is so much weight behind the gospel message. Given the evidence for and against it, it would honestly take more faith for me to be an atheist than a Christian.”

“Yeah, we shouldn’t be scared about backing up our claims,” Shane said. “And talking about things like faith helps us to understand God, to praise God and to glorify God, which is our purpose.”

Everyone seeks some sort of fulfilment in their lives. As a Christian, I believe that true fulfilment, true satisfaction in life, can only be found in knowing Jesus. And the reason for that is that it is what I believe we were created to do. Knowing Jesus, bringing glory to God and sharing in eternal life through God’s loving mercy. That is our purpose in life. The Bible is clear about what our purpose is, and why we should take great comfort in this purpose:

We are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2:10)

We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. (Romans 8:28)

As Christians, we won’t always be happy. There will be difficult times, and life will be unenjoyable at times. But we can always be joyful in knowing what is to come, knowing that we are drawing ever closer to the fulfilment of our purpose. For non-Christians, do you ever have a sense of dissatisfaction, as though there was meant to be more to life than what you’re experiencing now? If it happened to be that you were, indeed, created for a purpose, wouldn’t it be worth your while investigating what that purpose is, and perhaps one day enjoying the fulfilment to which it leads?

Bakery Run #6 – O’Connell Street Bakery

Pie Buddy: Ben Harrington

Topic: The sinfulness of unhealthy life choices

Before I begin, let me just say that I do appreciate the irony of discussing this topic while smashing down a two-course bakery dinner. But I think it’s a worthwhile topic to discuss, given how obesity, drunkenness and a whole lot of other physical side-effects of poor health choices are so prevalent in today’s society. Ben being a very switched on, thinking kind of guy, I knew we’d be in for a good chat.

The venue for this evening is the final (are there more? If so, let me know) of the three 24-hour bakeries – O’Connell Street Bakery at North Adelaide. And as usual, it rises to the occasion. My pepper steak pie hits the spot nicely, and the caramel slice scores highly as well (although probably not quite up there with St Georges). Ben gets a giant meringue, which also achieves a high standard. There is plenty of indoor and outdoor seating, a great range of baked goodies, and good service. And the place never closes. I’ve been here after midnight on several occasions, and business still carries on well into the night. Who doesn’t feel like a pie and a berliner at 2am anyway?

I mention the discussion topic to Ben, and he raises his eyebrows, probably because of the pie and caramel slice sitting on the table in front of me waiting to be devoured. “What I’m doing now, for example, is unhealthy,” I say. “When we consider unhealthy eating, drinking, smoking, sedentary lifestyle – where do we draw the line on these unhealthy life choices? When does it become sinful to live this way?”

“I don’t think there is a black and white line,” Ben replied. “There are certainly principles about this in the Bible, but it’s more of a wisdom issue, not so much black and white sin. This topic isn’t addressed specifically. Gluttony is identified as being sinful, but the bible never says how much food we can eat and not be gluttonous.”

To use an example from my own life, I happen to absolutely adore chicken schnitzels and consume them on a frighteningly regular basis. I’ve been starting to question whether this has developed into a sinful habit. I run this thought by Ben. “I guess I see it being a three-part issue,” I explained. “There’s the issue of greed – that is, wanting more than I need. Then there’s the idolatry side of things – am I over-desiring this food and holding it in an exalted position in my life? And then there’s the financial side – I’m spending a fair bit more money than I really need to.”

Ben thought about it for a bit. “Yeah, there’s the idolatry aspect, where you’re loving the creation as opposed to the Creator. And greed is linked to that - the Bible does say that greed is idolatry (Colossians 3:5 for those playing at home). It’s a desire for pleasure. In our pursuit of pleasure we can forget the source of that good gift.”

“When you break it down, pretty much any sin is a result of idolatry,” I replied. “Every sinful act we commit is a result of us seeking fulfilment in something that doesn’t honour God, that is contrary to his will.”

“Yeah that’s right,” said Ben. “And idolising food and drink is clearly condemned in the Bible. There are references to drunkenness, and to people whose Gods are their stomachs. But then what’s the issue?” he asked.

“Well as I see it, the issue with drunkenness is that it robs us of our self-control and causes us to act in ways that are displeasing to God. It takes away our ability to honour God.”

“Precisely,” Ben replied. “And similarly, the way we eat can demonstrate a lack of self-control and discipline. Gluttony and greed are sins. And so the principle becomes clear: what are we striving for in life? To bring glory to God. Everything needs to be looked at in that framework. Is your diet impacting your bringing glory to God? Is your drinking causing you to lose self-control, or damaging your body, and thereby affecting how you glorify God?”

This principle of glorifying God is seen in Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians. The context in this passage is about eating in a way that doesn’t affect the conscience of other people, but the underlying principle remains the same. It’s a short verse, but a profound reminder of our calling to honour God in all we do:

So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. (1 Corinthians 10:31)

“There’s also the importance of honouring your body,” Ben continued. “1 Corinthians talks about your body being a temple of the Holy Spirit, although that is in the context of prostitutes rather than eating.”

“Husbands are called to love their wives as they love their own bodies,” I replied (Ephesians 5.28. Verse 29 then says that we care for our bodies, just as Christ does for the Church). “so there’s clearly an expectation that we will honour the bodies we’ve been given.”

“That’s right. But then on the other hand, there are numerous Biblical passages about the Israelites feasting.”

“Is that prescriptive or descriptive though?” I asked. “Looking at Jesus’ life, you don’t exactly see him queuing up at the smorgasboard.”

“But there are a number of feasts that God tells the Israelites to have, plus a whole lot of animal sacrifices,” Ben replied. “And the Bible does talk about wine gladdening the hearts of men (Ps 104: 15). So food and drink are to be enjoyed.”

“So we’re called to accept these gifts thankfully, but not to elevate them to exalted positions in our life,” I said. “From a practical point of view, what I take that to look like is to enjoy – with a thankful heart- an evening eating and drinking with our friends or whatever, but to take a prudent long-term view. There needs to be self-control on our part. We’re called to enjoy these gifts, but to make too regular a habit of it would be greedy and financially irresponsible. And that’s where financial planning comes into it. If we plan our spending carefully, we can ensure that we don’t spend excessive amounts of money on needless luxuries, so that we can glorify God with our money. Even then though it’s still a bit of a grey area – how much is the right amount of money to be spending on food, wine, cigarettes etc? It’ll be different for each person. What are your thoughts on cigarettes anyway,” I asked. “Do you think smoking is a sin?”

“Cigarettes are an interesting one,” Ben replied. “They are kind of culturally taboo. They’re not directly biblically condemned, but because of the health risks, the addictive nature, the loss of self-control and the cost, it seems unwise. It’s not a direct sin, it’s more a wisdom issue. Consequently, I’d be reluctant to judge someone for smoking. We need to be careful not to extend the Bible beyond what it actually says. I know a number of Christians who smoke.”

“I think the addiction aspect of it changes how we look at it,” I said. “Addiction is essentially an illness, not a choice. And a lot of people addicted may be from previous generations, who wouldn’t have known the health risks when they started. They may well have prayed to be released from the addiction, but God has decided to use it for his purposes instead. That said, I think choosing to smoke in this day and age, with all the knowledge we have about the harm of smoking, is an unwise and sinful choice. Even with gluttony, there’s at least the argument that we need to eat to live. We certainly don’t need durries to live. From the financial side of things, I think it’s justifiable. Person A might spend $50 a week on movies for personal leisure, while person B spends his $50 on cigarettes. But from a health perspective, I think it contradicts God’s will for us. But then again I’ve just polished off a pie and a caramel slice, so there’s a bit of a double standard going on here.”

Ben launches into his conclusion. “The Bible calls us to strive for wisdom. The pursuit of wisdom is a virtue. That’s what the whole book of Proverbs is about. Being unwise contradicts with the way God calls us to live. We’re in a relationship with God, and our purpose in life is to bring honour and glory to God. We’re called to live wisely, to build that relationship, to honour God. And the health-related decisions we make should reflect that calling.”

That seemed like a pretty good way to wrap up the chat. At the end of the day, we are called to pursue wisdom, to seek God’s guidance, and to live prudently, using the common sense with which we have been gifted. The sole purpose of our life, the reason we are alive, is to bring honour and glory to God. Everything we do is to be done in a way that is pleasing to God. We should at all times be looking to serve him with all that we have. And so it makes sense that the decisions we make that affect the health of our body should reflect this calling. If what we are eating, drinking or smoking is affecting our ability (short-term and long-term) to serve and honour God, then it is something we must address. If we’re overweight and it’s affecting our ability to serve God, then we need to start jogging around the block. I know there are areas of my life that I need to change to improve on this, and I’m sure I’m not the only one. How are the decisions you are making affecting the way God is honoured in your life?

Bakery Run #5 – Café de Villis

Pie Buddy: Lawson Hannaford

Topic: Work & Christianity

Tonight’s venue was my second of Adelaide’s three 24-hour bakeries. My pie partner was Lawson, and we got chatting about a Christian perspective on work. Lawson currently works as a landscaper, and also ministers in a church that he began with his father-in-law a couple of years ago, so he has good insight into both secular and church work. At the time of our chat he was reading Every Good Endeavour by Tim Keller, a book about serving God through secular work, which got us on to the topic.

The Villis café, located just off South Road at Mile End, has a decent amount of seating both indoors and outdoors (although it’s a little cramped) and a solid range of Villis products on the menu, as well as milkshakes, ice cream and a whole lot of other stuff. My pie and donut both hit the spot nicely, although it’s nothing spectacular – pretty much the same as a Villis pie and donut that you could buy at Foodland, just a bit fresher. Lawson gets a pie floater, which looks outstanding, and makes it disappear in quick time. The food gets brought out to us on plates, which adds a bit of class to this place. I’m fairly confident I’ll be back here again one day (or night).

We begin by chatting about the upcoming season for Lawson’s football team, and what a good witness opportunity it is for a Christian to be involved in such a secular environment as a football club. He talks about how he used to pray before games, and how others gradually joined in as the year went on, even the coach. It’s encouraging to hear how God is using the workers in his harvest field. The conversation then transitions to the Christian perspective of work. “People think of work as being a curse,” Lawson said. “It’s a calling from God. We were called to work in the garden, right from the start. The Bible describes work as having a curse over it from the fall, which means that it can seem unproductive and meaningless at times. That’s what Ecclesiastes is on about. So while work – like everything else – is under the curse, it’s still a calling from God. People see work as being a negative thing, a necessary evil, they see the whole ‘live to work or work to live’ thing. And many people definitely do live to work.”

This reminded me a bit of the conversation I had with Nath the other day, where we had talked about how easy it is to idolise and worship our careers.

“It’s also important to remember that God values all work equally if that’s your calling, if you’re doing what he has willed for you to do,” Lawson continued. “Doctors, for example, have a high status in society, and it’s a role that people naturally aspire to. But God equally values the guy that served us at Villis just then, provided he is doing his work for God’s glory. And that’s something that’s challenged me in terms of doing both landscaping and church work. You tend to elevate one. Christians focus on full time ministry, but the secular work that we do can glorify God just as much. Look at history – Christians have been at the forefront of scientific and medical advances, cultural development, policy-making, all that sort of thing. Christians made it happen. I think Christians today tend to idolise church-based work. Previous generations had a better understanding of Scriptures.”

“Do you think Christians are more ignorant today, or is it more just a case of their being a smaller proportion of people in the world today who identify themselves as born-again Christians?” I asked. “I’m not a cultural expert by any stretch, but it seems that in the western world at least, identifying yourself as being a Christian has gone from being the default to being unusual in the last 100 years or so. You look at how Australia started, and our origins are rooted in Christian values. Now we’re essentially a secular nation.”

“Yeah, pop culture has definitely shifted away from Christianity, and people’s values and habits are for the most part dictated by pop culture. That’s something we’re called to resist as we live our lives for God.”

Lawson then turned his focus to what working to glorify God looks like. “Before I began to consider ministry, I wanted to be the best at my job. I believe God wants excellence from us in our work. It’s a means of worshiping him, provided we are working hard to honour him, not ourselves. We also worship him by resting. God demonstrated working six days and resting one day when he created the universe. My philosophy is that you should work hard when you’re working, and make sure you rest well too. God designed us in his image, and he rested.”

“And Jesus rested when he was tired from his hard work,” I said. “Before he calmed the storm, he was sleeping after days of ministering to the people around him. The Bible gives accounts of him working hard during his ministry, but also resting.”

“Yeah, and it’s interesting, when he fed the 5000 people, he was actually trying to get away from the people and have a rest, but crowds of people came after him,” Lawson replied. “And he didn’t just leave them, he pushed through the tiredness and kept on going. It’s a great example of God’s calling for Christians to give their all. He calls us to rest well and to work hard. We’ve got to be always willing to do God’s work. Whether that’s digging a hole or preparing a Bible study, they’re both equally valuable in God’s sight if that’s his will for you at that moment.”

That was a bit of a mind-blowing realisation for me. I find – and I’m sure I’m not the only one – that I have a constant desire to be productive. I want to see tangible results for every bit of effort I put into something. And so from a Christian perspective, every second where I’m not doing something that is bringing noticeable glory to God feels like a second wasted. But Lawson is right, I realise. Even the things we do that don’t seem to be building up God’s kingdom can still be honouring God. Take secular work for example. God can be at work in so many ways through our work. Like through our witness to non-Christian workmates and the way we conduct ourselves in front of them. Who are we to limit in our minds what God might be doing in their hearts. As we work, God is enabling us to develop character, patience, perseverance, experience and skills that we can use to serve him in a variety of ways down the track. And as we make our own contribution to the way the world runs, God is using us to shape a world in which he promises to be lovingly and sovereignly at work. In the book of Colossians, Paul makes it clear that the purpose of our work is to reverently serve God:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favour, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. (Colossians 3:22-24)

“What do you think are some things that Christians to badly in regards to work?” I asked.

“Firstly, when people compartmentalise, when they separate their secular work from their serving of God,” Lawson replied thoughtfully. “I think that’s unhealthy and unbiblical. It leads to people looking down on others for doing certain things. It leads to sin in the church. And it personifies the Sunday Christian. I think also laziness is a big one.”

I had to agree with that one. “It’s a poor witness, isn’t it?”

“It’s a terrible witness. Work is one of your greatest witness opportunities, why would you waste that by being lazy at your job? And then on the flip-side, being a workaholic is bad as well. Idolising work. God wants us to give our best while we’re at work, but to worship him first and foremost. I see God as being my number one priority, then family, then church and ministry, then work. And I make sure my prayer life matches that. When I pray, I’ll focus firstly on God – like saying the Lord’s prayer or something similar – then pray for my family, then for ministry stuff – discipling, that sort of thing – then about work and evangelism. I find it definitely makes me think about what I value, and helps me to prioritise stuff.”

He also sees a Sabbath day as being something that has helped him. “I don’t see Christians as being under law and required to take a Sabbath, I see it more as being under wisdom. God has created us to work and rest, so I see a Sabbath as being a time for rest and recreation. I generally wouldn’t do any sermon prep, church stuff, work or anything like that.”

And of course, prayer and Bible reading is an essential part of any Christian’s life. “Spending time with God is the most valuable time of day.” And while this may not seem directly related to the topic of work, there is no way you will focus on God and seek to glorify him in your work if you don’t have a solid relationship with him. And a solid relationship with God comes through spending time reading his word and making it a priority to spend time with him in prayer. Make prayer and Bible reading a top priority in your life, and it will help you to focus better on serving God throughout the day, not just on the odd occasion. I know this, and yet Lawson’s words still remind me that I need to make these things a more urgent priority.

I came away from today’s discussion firmly reminded of how God can use people in all circumstances for his glory. God has placed each Christian person (every person in fact) in particular circumstances for particular reasons. Our jobs have huge value in terms of honouring God. It’s a reminder for each of us – no matter what we do for a living, if we are fortunate enough to have work – to do our task to the best of our ability, for God’s glory. Given that Christians will (hopefully) not worship our jobs and live for them, we should be prepared to accept that we may never be the best in our field. But we can be sure that God will be working through our efforts and bringing about his purposes through our work. Work isn’t a curse. Futility is a curse. God created us to work well, to rest well, and to do it all to honour him.

Bakery Run #4 – St Peters Bakery

Pie Buddy: Nathan Eardley-Harris

Topic: Being a Christian and a doctor

I’ve been hearing good things about St Peters Bakery for a while now, and the day had finally come to see if the hype was justified. To be fair, most of the hype I had heard was from Nathan, who lives just a few hundred metres away from the place. With that in mind, who could be a better bakery buddy for today? That’s right, nobody. Nath has just finished his medical degree and begun working as an intern at a hospital, meaning that he can now officially be called ‘doctor’. I thought it would be interesting to get his perspective on how his Christian faith impacts his thinking as a doctor.

But such a deep conversation would be impossible on an empty stomach. We arrived at the bakery late Sunday afternoon, by which stage they had run out of steak and pepper pies. Understandable, I guess. We both opted for the vindaloo beef pie, which turns out to be a very worthy substitute. I can’t fault the quality of my donut, and Nath chooses one of the cheesecakes on display, which hits the spot just nicely. Lots of indoor and outdoor seating, lots of food options both sweet and savoury, good portion sizes, not too expensive, friendly staff (who allow us to stay and chat well after closing time) – this bakery gets two thumbs up for sure.

“In your experience,” I ask Nath to kick things off, “what are the implications of living by Christian ethics as a doctor?”

“I’ve been thinking about that a fair bit,” he replied. “To start with, what do Christian ethics imply? Caring for your neighbour and looking out for others. Praying for patients and evangelism. Most doctors would do the first bit of that regardless of their beliefs. But evangelism as a doctor is hard, and I’ve never really seen it done well.”

He then takes a few moments to consider Christianity from a doctor’s point of view. “As a doctor, I see God’s creation every day. And as a medical student, we were all taught to ask questions – most of my friends find it hard to have faith in what they can’t see and touch. I believe faith and science work hand in hand. But people seem to think it’s a case of faith versus evidence.”

“Have you met many Christian doctors?” I asked.

“Yeah, I’ve seen pretty much the full spectrum of Christian doctors. Some of them openly exhibit everything and more that you would expect in a Christian.” He recounts an experience of meeting a doctor in Papua New Guinea who would pray with each of his patients. “You could tell that he cared for them both medically and pastorally. But then I’ve met a lot of other doctors – Christian and non-Christian – who have a complete lack of respect for patients. And it’s hard to find the right balance between caring for your patients on a pastoral level – like praying for them – and on a professional level – like giving advice, treating them, that sort of thing. If you were always praying for your patients, I think that would be quite unwelcome in general - most people wouldn’t appreciate it.”

I can completely understand his point. I can imagine that if I didn’t believe in God and was wanting a doctor to find a cure for my sickness, I’d be pretty keen for him to crack out the stethoscope rather than the prayer book. But God can reveal himself to people in all sorts of ways, it seems. “During placement a few years ago, I met a guy who was dying,” Nath said. “We had a bit of a chat and he said he had lived a bad life – he had treated people badly, and everything he’d done had been out of pure selfishness. But then he got given a Bible, discovered God’s truth and realised life’s meaning and his own sinfulness. He wanted to talk to me about Jesus. We prayed together, then I left, and when I came back to see him the next week, he was gone.”

It’s always incredible hearing stories like that, and being constantly reminded that it’s never too late for someone to give their life to Jesus and be saved.

“I think the time factor is something that makes it hard to be a doctor and a Christian,” said Nath. “The busyness of it can sometimes stop people from going to Church. It becomes not just a job, but a lifestyle. You become career minded. It’s the one thing they think will make them happy.”

Although I’m not a doctor, I’ve seen enough of this in my own working experience to know that he is absolutely right. Finding a work/faith balance is a huge task, and something I’m sure I’ll chat to someone (while eating a pie) about sooner rather than later. “Yeah, I’ve definitely seen people who live for their careers,” I agreed. “We all worship something in our lives. For some people it’s God, for some it’s the gym, for some it’s their work.”

“Yeah, and I have to feel sorry for them,” Nath said. “It’s just such a hollow way to live.”

I’m interested to hear Nath’s thoughts on abortion and euthaniasia, which are two medically related topics in which his Christian perspective is sure to be in opposition to that of many of his colleagues.

“As far as abortion goes, I never thought I’d have a choice,” he said. “I assumed it was kind of like being in the army and having to go to war – it just comes with the territory. But now I’ve come to see that I do have a choice. I can disagree. If someone asks me to perform an abortion, I can point them to someone who is willing to do it, but I can choose not to do it. I remember a non-Christian obstetrician I met in Port Pirie, who said: ‘I refuse to do that. I’m not here to kill.’ It’s such a gray area. Many people will ask ‘what if the mother was raped?’ or ‘what if the mother is sick and the birth will endanger her?’. And I think you do have to look after the mother’s wellbeing. The doctor in Port Pirie used to say ‘God looks after the babies, we look after the mother’, which I thought was interesting. Personally, as a Christian I disagree with abortion and I definitely wouldn’t want to perform one. But I don’t think it’s my place to judge others with a different worldview who do choose to have one.

“As far as euthanasia goes, I see it as taking a life, just like suicide. And I don’t think family members should have a say in whether someone is euthanized. If a person isn’t competent to make a decision, then a decision shouldn’t be made. Living isn’t a decision, it should be the default option. I think if someone states in their will that they don’t want to be kept alive if they’re in a vegetated state, then that’s a different matter.”

“There’s a difference between ceasing to keep someone alive and causing a person to die, isn’t there.” I said. From my personal point of view, if I was in a comatose state, being kept alive by a machine, with no hope of recovery, I would much prefer them to pull the plug rather than prolong the pain for my family. “Have you been challenged on your views by other people you’ve come across in the profession?” I asked.

“Not really. My views on abortion have never really been held against me. And from my experience, euthanasia really isn’t that popular. People have more pressing issues against Christianity, like gay marriage for example.”

I found it quite interesting that most of the things he was challenged on didn’t seem to be medical related. Overall, it was fascinating to get a perspective of life from the point of view of someone doing such a sensitive, people-focussed role in the secular world, while seeking to obey and honour God in everything. Following Jesus means not just to obey him when it suits us, but to honour him in all that we do:

Whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. (Colossians 3:17)

That’s a big ask for any person in any job, and it’s encouraging to see that Nath is thinking through what that looks like in his role. Medicine is a field of work that will produce situations of great biological and moral complexity. Many issues that arise – such as abortion – are extremely difficult to deal with, due to the often complicated circumstances and, of course, the impact on human lives involved. Christian doctors may at times differ with each other in their opinions on such issues, but my prayer is that they would be trusting in God to give them discernment in the decisions they make, and strength to stand firm in their faith as they carry out their work.

Bakery Run #3 – Enjoy Café, Norwood

Pie Buddy: David Lee

Topic: Born blind

My third bakery run was at the well-known 24 hour bakery on the Parade. This is one of three all-day all-night bakeries that Adelaide has to offer – it’s comforting to realise that the bakers of our city are aware that the urge for a pie is something that just can’t wait. David, my guest for today, was born in Malaysia and moved to Adelaide to study music, which he graduated from in 2010. What makes his story so extraordinary is that he has been blind from birth. Disabled people have pretty much no prospects of employment in Malaysia, so David applied to get into university in Australia, knowing that this was his only chance to live what he felt was a meaningful life. Even though he graduated, he has still endured a frustrating three years since then, unable to find regular work in his field, and constantly being uncertain of how long he will be able to reside in Australia. He currently supports himself by collecting money, but is establishing his own business as a piano teacher, and hopes to take on students this year. He has had a difficult time jumping through hoops to get permission with the government to set up this employment. I first met David at Evangelical Students (a university Christian group) while he was studying, and have continually been moved at the way he has handled difficulties in his life. I hope his story is equally impacting on all who read this.

Anyway, let’s talk about the bakery first, because it’s definitely worth mentioning. Exemplary would be a suitable word. My pepper steak pie was amazing, my donut likewise. Every time I have a pie here, it tastes so good that I struggle to resist going a second one, even though just one is filling enough. As usual, David orders a pie floater, which he ploughs through like a man possessed (and with surprising neatness for someone who can’t see). He backs it up with a decent sized vanilla slice. With all our food coming in at under $20, I feel as though a good investment has been made. The guy behind the counter is extremely polite, and brings us each a glass of water after we sit down. The range of food cannot be faulted, and there is lots of comfortable indoor and outdoor seating. We grab a table inside and the conversation begins. I am fascinated to hear David’s unique perspective of being a Christian having lived his whole life blind – how has it impacted his faith, and has he ever questioned why this happened to him? We begin his story right from the beginning.

“My parents weren’t Christians when I was born. They started going to church about a year later,” David says.

“Was it because of your disability that they started going to church?” I asked.

“Yes. People with disabilities aren’t accepted in Malaysia, and so they wanted healing for me. When that didn’t work, they tried to get me to have operations, but nothing worked. Later they stopped going to church, but still said they were Christian. They’ve been back at church for the past couple of years now.”

“What was it that made them go back?”

“When I graduated from university, they realised that maybe having a disability wasn’t too bad, and so they decided to go back. But they still have a few things they need to improve on in their faith. Asians can be very stubborn!”

I was blown away to hear this. Although their motives weren’t entirely God-focussed, it was David’s blindness that led to his parents going along to church and hearing God’s word. And in some way, David’s success at university had prompted them to return to church. God had used these extremely difficult circumstances to show that entire family their dependence on him.

“How did you become a Christian?” I asked David.

“People lent me cassettes of the New Testament, which I found was very good. I joined a church in Malaysia, became a Christian after High School and got baptised. I was a Christian when I came to Australia.”

But things have been difficult for David since finishing university. “For the last three years I’ve had a low-paying job, I lived in a very small house, and I wondered: Why do things happen this way? And I’ve constantly been threatened by the government that I might be sent away from Australia, which would mean that it would be impossible to find work. There are many times when I’ve thought that there is no place for me on this earth. Last Christmas wasn’t too bad, but the two Christmases before that I thought that the best Christmas present would be if I didn’t wake up the next morning.”

As you can imagine, that was quite difficult for me to hear. There was no doubt that David has a lot riding on his next employment venture going well. “You said that you wonder why things happen this way,” I responded. “Can you see God working through this?”

“Definitely,” David replied. “God has brought me through some bad times.”

“Is there comfort for you in knowing that God is in control?”

“Definitely. I have a lot of doubts about the future – whether I will have enough work, whether I will get to stay in the country. If I can stay in Australia, I will have no reason to think that there’s no place for me in this world.”

“So a lot of these things are out of your control then?”

“Yes, probably 80% of these problems are out of my control.”

This was a humbling realisation for me. In my life, I am completely dependent on God to pull me out of difficult circumstances and keep me focussed on him. David is the same. The only difference is, he is constantly aware of his dependence on God, because he has less ability to depend on himself than I do. “Do you think this realisation of your own dependence is a blessing?” I ask.

“Yes,” he replies. “But sometimes it can be a pain. It means I’m dependent on other people as well, and they aren’t always reliable.”

I decide to ask about how David’s circumstances have affected his faith. “What are your feelings towards God? I guess a lot of people would struggle to see how a loving God could make someone blind. What are your thoughts?”

“I’ve never questioned God’s love,” David replies. “He’s not bad, he’s the Creator, he gives us many good things, like sunshine and rain. I’ve always loved God. As long as I’m getting the basics that I need, I’m happy.”

As I heard those words, it dawned on me just how greedy I can be for worldly pleasures and riches, when I already have the greatest treasure I could ever dream of – a relationship with God and forgiveness of sins through Jesus. In contrast, David’s attitude is a much greater reflection of the contentment in Christ that Paul talks about in his letter to the Philippians:

I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do everything through him who gives me strength. (Philippians 4:11-13)

God doesn’t promise to shower Christians with every possible gift and blessing in this lifetime. He intends to provide us with what we require to bring him honour and glory, that we might share in his infinite riches in the life to come. It’s something we all constantly need to remind ourselves.

 “This has made me more patient,” David says of his disability. “It has helped me to develop anger management, and to trust God more. Also, I look back at coming to Australia as being a huge blessing.” He then tells of how hard it was for him to come over – he had to face great opposition from his family, who felt that a disabled person shouldn’t be educated.

Although David says he has never been angry at God, that is not to say he has never been angry in his life. He expresses disgust at people who believe that having a sufficiently strong faith will bring him healing from his blindness. Such a belief is a complete misunderstanding of the promises God has made to his people. “I’m angry at other people, who say that I should ask God to heal me. They don’t think properly. Why do they think God will heal me? Disabled people have done tremendous things.” He is also angry at those who take advantage of disabled people, whether by stealing from them or paying them minimal wages for their work.

I head home with a full tummy and plenty of food for thought. How can you hear a testimony like that and not be completely ashamed at your own attitudes? How many times have I questioned God’s will over totally insignificant things? And meanwhile David, who has endured a seemingly endless string of difficulties from the day he was born, has never been angry at God, or questioned his will. In fact, the only things David seems to be angered about are things that dishonour God – things that as a Christian we are right to be angry about. Every time I catch up with David, I am greatly encouraged and challenged. My prayer for today is that David’s perspective on God’s love and his blindness would be one that challenges and encourages everyone who hears it.

Bakery Run #2 – St Georges Bakehouse (Portrush Road)

Pie Buddy: Daniel Russ

Topic: An absolute truth

We approached the starting line for Round 2, and I had a good feeling about this one right from the beginning. St Georges is an award-winning bakery (Australian pie of the year 2011 or something like that), and everything I had ever had from here has been top notch. Daniel, my special guest for this bakery run, is a Melbourne boy who has recently moved over to Adelaide. I couldn’t afford to take him somewhere sub-standard and give my proud state a bad name. So, after a walk up Mount Lofty, it was time for a well-earned feed.

And we certainly weren’t let down. My steak and pepper pie was out of this world – impressive size, perfect flaky pastry, flavoursome, lots of meat inside – everything you could ask for in a pie. The caramel slice was delicious as well. At $8.30 for both, it was quite reasonably priced. Daniel got the steak and mushroom pie, which he also raved about, and washed it down with a Farmer’s Union (gotta love South Australia!). Excellent service, a good range of pies and pastries, plenty of space – this was a bakery experience that was going to be hard to top!

We had a seat outside (lots of available seating – another definite bonus) and got chatting. “If there is such a thing as an absolute truth,” Daniel asked, “how, as Christians, do we convince people of this? And what stops people from acknowledging that truth?”

“And when you say an objective truth,” I asked, “ you mean that the Christian message is true, that Jesus died for our sins and the only way to salvation is through him?”

“Yeah that’s right,” Daniel replied. “Jesus is the absolute truth. But then so many people today don’t accept that as an absolute truth like they recognise other absolute truths. If I said the sky was blue, people can accept that as an absolute truth, because it’s scientifically verifiable. You can back that up by analysing how the light refracts to produce something in that range of the colour spectrum. But with Christianity it’s not quite like that. I heard a talk the other day where the speaker was defending Christianity based on science. And his argument was good, but I don’t think you can prove Christianity beyond reasonable doubt using science, because science is about observations, and Christianity is based on faith, believing what isn’t seen.”

This is one of the difficulties of defending the Christian faith. As assured as a Christian is in their own faith, presenting the Christian message as an objective truth to people who don’t believe it – and, moreover, convincing them of that truth – is another thing altogether. People want absolute proof for the things they believe in. Where there is any doubt, there is license to hold on to unbelief.

“I definitely think some people would deny Jesus even if he was here today,” Daniel continued. “Look at what happened with the Pharisees in the New Testament. They held that the Law was the only way to God, and then they added extra stuff to that Law, even though they were forbidden from doing so. That was their absolute truth. Jesus came along, made it clear who he claimed to be, and challenged their absolute truth. Instead of following him, they clung to their absolute truth.”

“And now we see the same thing happening in a sense today,” I said. “People enjoy the things they have, and wouldn’t want to subscribe to any worldview that would ask them to give these things up. And so they close their eyes to the idea of Jesus being the absolute truth, because it would be an inconvenience to them.”

“Yeah, and it’s really sad to see,” Daniel replied. “They’ve been offered a free gift, and they’re not even interested. I think people also dislike what the Christian message says about us as people. People think they’re good, but Christianity says that we’re not good – we’re doomed unless we truly know and trust in Jesus. Some people hear this message, take it on board and radically change. Some people find it easier just to ignore.”

“The Christian message is really quite offensive isn’t it?” I replied. “It’s essentially saying ‘you’re not good enough.’ And people resent that.”

“And that’s such an immature perspective,” Daniel said. “People think their way is the right way, whereas in reality God’s way is the right way, and he offers to save us.”

From my point of view, what Daniel said has hit the nail on the head, and highlighted one of the great difficulties of being a Christian in a fallen world. It really is sad to see people offered the free gift of salvation, eternal life in God’s presence and the fulfilment of what we were created to be, but rejecting it because it will stop them enjoying things in this lifetime. C.S. Lewis once likened it to a small child ignoring the offer of a beach holiday because he was enjoying making mud castles in his backyard. As a Christian, there is nothing you could give me that would come close to matching the joy I have in knowing God.

The apostle Paul, writing while in prison, describes how nothing the world has to offer could compare with what he has received through his relationship with Jesus:

I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I might gain Christ. (Philippians 3:8)

“So as Christians,” I asked Daniel, “how do we respond to this do you think?”

“We have this knowledge,” he replied, “so why keep it to ourselves. How could you discover something so life-changing and not tell people?”

His response reminded me of a talk I had heard recently, where the speaker likened being a Christian to being on a sinking boat with other people who don’t know the boat is sinking. You know the boat is sinking, you know where the life rafts are, surely no one would remain silent in those circumstances. It’s a good analogy, I think, for the urgency of evangelism. And it’s also important to remember that it’s not ultimately up to us to get the people off the boat. All we can do is tell them that the boat is sinking and show them the life rafts. Likewise with evangelism, we are called to give a full, prayerful effort to point people to Jesus, but it will ultimately be God’s strength, not ours, that gets them over the line. It’s a comforting reminder.

“Christians can get caught up in traditions or whatever, and leave God out of the picture,” Daniel continued. If we don’t have a constant desire to see people come to faith, we’re not being loving, so we’re leaving God out of the picture. Christianity isn’t a set of rules to be followed, it’s about God’s love for us. We need to make that clear. We need to be able to tell non-Christians that we don’t think we’re better than them. Following Jesus doesn’t make you a good person. But it makes you forgiven and saved. That’s the absolute truth.”

Like the pie, that conversation was quite meaty and very satisfying. It’s important as Christians not only to understand God’s truth, but to do all that we can to share this truth with those who don’t yet believe it. How unloving would it be to know such good news but to not share it with those who truly need it. Daniel had brilliantly pinpointed the sadness of seeing people ignore God’s saving love for us. This sadness stems from our desire to see God properly glorified and the love that God calls us to have for each other. My prayer from today is that all people who know Jesus (myself included) would constantly be motivated to do all that we can, in complete dependence on God’s saving power, to point people towards him. 

Bakery Run #1 – Beck’s Bakehouse, Winston Avenue

Pie Buddies: Matt & Annika Winter

Topic: Considering Vocational Christian Ministry

So, the journey begins! I couldn’t risk interviewing a dud for Round 1, otherwise the journey might be ruined before it began. With that in mind, Matt and Annika seemed like the perfect choice. And since Becks Bakehouse is just down the road from their place, the choice of location was also a no-brainer.

The bakery is quite small inside, but has a good range of pies, breads, cakes and other delicious things. The service was quite good – everyone working there seemed polite, and looked as though they enjoyed being there, which is always a good sign. My pepper steak pie and donut were both pretty good, although the donut didn’t seem particularly fresh. The pie was a decent size and had decent chunks of beef and just the right amount of spiciness. No matter what happened though, this one was always going to rank number one for at least a couple of days, seeing as it was the first one I tried. But I was happy with it – definitely $7.70 well spent.

We took lunch back to Matt and Annika’s place as there wasn’t much in the way of seating at the bakery. And then we got chatting. The topic seemed quite appropriate, as I’m about to begin a two year stint in ministry, while Matt has also been weighing up the option of vocational ministry for several years.

Matt and I have been good friends for about five years, dating back to our university days when he was the Adelaide Uni Evangelical Students (ES) president. He is someone I hold in extremely high regard as a wise and loving Christian friend. Matt and Annika got married early last year, and have always strongly considered how vocational ministry would look in their life together. I was sure they would have an interesting and helpful perspective on this topic, having grappled with it themselves for a while.

Matt has had the possibility of church ministry on his mind since his ES president days, with the two main staffworkers on campus at the time – who had both strongly encouraged him to undertake a ministry apprenticeship – being major influences in his thinking. Both Matt and I have been regular attendees of the Christian Vocation conference run once a year in Adelaide, which has enabled us to get a broader perspective of what Christian ministry looks like. Matt served for a period of time as an elder at his previous church, so he has some idea of what it looks like to work in a church environment. He has had the opportunity to preach in church and do a lot of logistical work. Obviously full-time ministry would be a big change though.

“I definitely see great value in employing people full time for ministry,” Matt said thoughtfully, between mouthfuls, “but at the same time we’re not looking to rush into it just yet. It’s a big responsibility, a big privilege, to be in that role, so it’s something I’d be fairly cautious about going into. After all, probably only 1% of Christians will actually be full-time vocational ministry workers.”

It’s definitely a fair point, I think. Deciding whether you’re the right person (or right people) for such a privileged position is a big call. God’s word sets quite a high standard for the people who are appointed as overseers (that is, those who teach and lead) of the church:

If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. (1 Timothy 3:1-4)

And giving up secular work isn’t always automatically the right decision. “I’m also not sure what the right amount of time to spend in the workforce is,” Matt continues. “Obviously it’s different for everyone depending on the circumstances. There are benefits to ministry and secular work that you wouldn’t get elsewhere. So knowing what the right amount of time to wait for is never easy.”

And of course it’s one thing to make this decision as a single person, but being married changes the dynamics completely. And Annika is clear that although getting timing right is important for her, she is 100% committed to whatever Matt’s ministry ends up looking like. And that’s important, because they both know that if Matt takes on vocational ministry, Annika will be heavily invested in it as well. “What areas of ministry do you enjoy?” I asked her. “I like kids, catching up with people, sharing peoples’ lives,” she replied, enthusiastically. Fortunately all three of those things are quite prominent in ministry. It’s clear that there are many aspects of ministry that both Matt and Annika will not only enjoy, but be well suited to.

But there are many things to take into account. Finances are a big one – ministry is hardly a get-rich-quick career path (or a get-rich-at-all career path for that matter), so there is a need to make sure that it is a feasible option, particularly as Annika is planning to do more study in the future. Family (both current and future) is also a big consideration – they are both well aware that over-investing in ministry at the expense of investing properly in your children can have disastrous consequences. And, of course, knowing whether Matt is suitable for full time ministry. His preference is to undertake a ministry apprenticeship at some stage before proceeding to Bible College, to get a feel for whether he is cut out for ministry. I can completely understand this, as it’s exactly what I’m doing.

Thinking back to what Matt said earlier, only a small proportion of Christians will ever undertake vocational ministry. The Bible makes it clear that different people have different abilities and gifts that they are called to use. And from a logical point of view, not every Christian could be a full-time vocational Gospel worker, otherwise there would be nobody to support them financially. The point is, this isn’t a path for every Christian to take. “For someone thinking through the possibility of ministry,” I ask Matt, “What would you suggest would be some signs that they are suitable for ministry?” Matt thinks about it for a bit. “I think the first step would be to ask people that you trust and respect, people who know you, to get their honest opinion on it. Also, you should already be involved in ministry of some sort – and enjoy doing it – otherwise you’re unlikely to be suitable for doing it as a job.”

I walked out of Matt and Annika’s house in quite a good mood. It had been an encouraging chat, hearing about how this couple that I respect and admire so much are approaching this decision with such humility and dependence on God. Seeing how willing Annika was not only to support Matt but to joyfully carry out her role in his ministry as well was fantastic to hear. As Christians, we are all called to a life of full-time ministry, although only a small fraction will actually take it on as a full-time paid occupation. Choosing to pursue vocational ministry is a huge commitment. But given the need for Christians to be encouraged and equipped, and for the Christian message to be heard and believed all around the world, my prayer is that more mature, capable, godly men and women like Matt and Annika would be strongly and prayerfully considering such a commitment.

Jesus and Pie

As a Christian, I firmly believe there is nothing more important than the saving death of Jesus on the cross to make salvation possible for all people. That belief is central to my life, and my hope and prayer for each and every person in the world is for them to come to a true loving relationship with God. As such, I believe there is huge value in talking about Jesus, and discussing the nature and implications of my beliefs. As a Christian, I am called to edify, instruct and spur on my brothers and sisters in the faith, and also to act as Christ’s ambassador, pointing those who don’t believe the Christian message to the hope, joy and salvation that is found in Christ alone. I think it’s good for all of us to discuss such things – after all, if what the Bible says is true, then we all have much thinking about our lives to do – Christians and Non-Christians alike. And yet how easy it is to spend all our time talking about much less meaningful things. I know this is something that I’m constantly guilty of.

As a pie-lover, I love pies. And sausage rolls, donuts, finger buns and pretty much anything else you can purchase at a bakery. The very thought of a bakery run makes me giddy with excitement. There are few greater pleasures than trying a new bakery and finding out how good it is.

So one day I thought to myself, “Why don’t I combine these two passions of mine?” And from this question was conceived the idea of Jesus & Pie. I like talking about Jesus. I like eating pie. I like catching up with people. I like making a meaningful contribution to God’s work here on Earth. I could try to do all four at once! I believe that God has given us good things (like meat pies for instance) with the intention that we enjoy them, but also that we use these gifts in a way that glorifies him. That’s exactly what I’m intending to do.

So in a nutshell, this is how it works (I hope it works, I really do) – I’ll be doing bakery runs all around Adelaide, catching up with someone (or multiple people) and discussing some aspect of Christianity. I’ll then put up a blog post summarising the things we discussed, a few of my thoughts on reflection, plus a brief review of the bakery.

Hopefully this is something that people find interesting and helpful, both in terms of working out a good place to grab a steak and pepper pie, but more importantly in thinking through some of the concepts and issues that come up in the discussions. If you would like to recommend a bakery, request a discussion topic or be one of my ‘bakery guests’, I’d be keen to hear from you. I’d love to catch up with people of all different backgrounds and beliefs (not just people who agree with me on everything), as I think that will produce a much more helpful and broad variety of discussions. And I’d love to chat about anything and everything – baptism, predestination, gay marriage, welcoming newcomers to church, existentialism… fire away! I can’t claim to be an expert at all of those things, but I trust that God will be at work through the conversations in some way.

I'm getting pretty keen for this, I hope that whatever you believe in and whatever baked goods you prefer, that you enjoy this theological and culinary adventure with me!